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post #11 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 12:49 PM
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Yeah, I'm not worried about plastic scrapes. I just had the impression we were maybe 80% or so as capable as a stock Wrangler, mostly because of the lack of true live axles and somewhat worse angles. So is the difference more in the ability to modify?

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post #12 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 01:38 PM
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Black Bear pass is rated a 5 because of the steepness and narrowness of the trail. There is almost no rock crawling involved. Subaru's have done it without much problems.
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post #13 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by geoelectric View Post
Yeah, I'm not worried about plastic scrapes. I just had the impression we were maybe 80% or so as capable as a stock Wrangler, mostly because of the lack of true live axles and somewhat worse angles. So is the difference more in the ability to modify?
Ability to modify is the biggest.
Long term strength might be one too. A solid axle is stronger than the IS control arms.


Stock vs stock, one random trip like this, I'd say they are pretty close.


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post #14 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 03:56 PM
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Ability to modify is the biggest.
Long term strength might be one too. A solid axle is stronger than the IS control arms.


Stock vs stock, one random trip like this, I'd say they are pretty close.

Very cool. As a rank beginner to this side of things I really appreciate being able to eavesdrop on these threads for info. Thanks!

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post #15 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 06:00 PM
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I watched many videos of people's running the black bear pass on youtube. I think a stock Wrangler would have done it easily. Trailhawk should be able to do it, but the ground clearance is really a bottleneck. There are steps, especially at some switchbacks, which makes it quite difficult for a trailhawk.
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post #16 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 12:00 PM
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I think the toughest thing for a Trailhawk on this trail would be front end visibility. The Wrangler sitting higher and with a shorter front end will be easier to navigate the switchbacks. I can't even see my front end when pulling in my driveway at a slight incline. Then there are those massive A pillars...

As for their ratings in general, 90% I'd do up to a 4, but I might hit some 5s at times. Most of the trails in Colorado are 4 or less, and keep in mind high end rating means you might only see a 5 once during the entire trail section. It might only be a single obstacle. Reading the trail descriptions is key.

I do think the Trailhawk is pretty close to a stock non-Rubicon Wrangler. Ground clearance on a sport model is 8.8", TH is 8.7". Keep in mind ****'s Revenge is a 5 on the low end rating for their scale. That means, at a minimum, a TH has done 5 rated trails, even if they didn't do all the obstacles that warranted the 8 on the high end. Wouldn't do it without rock rails though for sure. When they did it, they scraped them quite a bit.

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post #17 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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Black Bear pass is rated a 5 because of the steepness and narrowness of the trail. There is almost no rock crawling involved. Subaru's have done it without much problems.
Yah, if you go to the link, it's actually only rated a 2 for rock crawling.

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post #18 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 01:02 PM
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I do think the Trailhawk is pretty close to a stock non-Rubicon Wrangler. Ground clearance on a sport model is 8.8", TH is 8.7".
Not quite true. The ground clearance is measured between the ground and the lowest point on the vehicle's undercarriage. It's usually not between the ground and the rock rails. When you go over a rock, it is the clearance between the rock rail and the ground that mostly matters. A Wrangler Sport has much larger clearance there.
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post #19 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 02:12 PM
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Not quite true. The ground clearance is measured between the ground and the lowest point on the vehicle's undercarriage. It's usually not between the ground and the rock rails. When you go over a rock, it is the clearance between the rock rail and the ground that mostly matters. A Wrangler Sport has much larger clearance there.
Good to know. Thanks.

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post #20 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 02:19 PM
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Anyone have experience with this trail? I saw a video of it today and I think it's on my bucket list, either hiked or driven. Any idea if a Trailhawk could make it?
Hi @HAWKDVM, I'm actually planning to do Black Bear pass in my TH next year (or that is my wish), preferably after adding rock rails.

The intention is to tackle it sometime in September although not formal plans have been set yet. I'll be putting an invite out to anyone who wishes to join us especially since I would not tackle this alone. I do have a couple of TH's that have expressed an interest in a team effort.

I was inspired by a video of a stock Subaru that claims to have done this run more than once, so I figure a TH shouldn't have any problems with it's clearance and 4WD options.

Please let me know if and when you plan to drive it especially if the Sept time frame is anywhere close.
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