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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by StealthHawk View Post
I've got the 3.2 in my Trailhawk with the AGM battery. Driving patterns/use are nothing out of the ordinary. Both times the Tech said their test showed a dead cell in the battery. The first one failed all of a sudden. The second one showed early signs of pending failure with the starter struggling to turn over the engine first noticeable about a week before it finally died.

I'm thinking I've been unlucky enough to get crappy AGM batteries from wherever Mopar is sourcing them. The KL is my personal vehicle that I drive quite a bit for work. My previous company fleet vehicle was a RAM 1500 I drove for two years without a single charging system or battery issue. The one before the RAM was a Jeep Liberty for five years with no issues also. I've got Optima Red and Yellow top batteries in other personal vehicles with no issues.
You have a 2014, therefore no ESS so you had a wet battery originally (AGMs came in 2015 with ESS IIRC). Your first replacement was likely a wet battery again, because if replaced under warranty they would go with OEM part#, not the newer much more expensive AGM. So the third one you paid for is AGM (Mopar ?). Hopefully this one will last much, much longer and the other two were... defective. To my knowledge we've had one member report a dead AGM (2015) battery, probably defective...
Optimas are good batteries. From all the reading I've done on AGMs recently, the Odysseys and Northstars rule right now, for performance and longevity. They are pricey though.

My avatar is the Elder Predator (goes well with my forum status and overall temper )
2015 North (Canada) - V6 - AD1
Cold, Tow, 8.4A, 9 speakers with sub

Last edited by Mark_; 02-02-2017 at 09:35 PM. Reason: added a question
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
You have a 2014, therefore no ESS so you had a wet battery originally (AGMs came in 2015 with ESS IIRC). Your first replacement was likely a wet battery again, because if replaced under warranty they would go with OEM part#, not the newer much more expensive AGM. So the third one you paid for is AGM (Mopar ?). Hopefully this one will last much, much longer and the other two were... defective. To my knowledge we've had one member report a dead AGM (2015) battery, probably defective...
Optimas are good batteries. From all the reading I've done on AGMs recently, the Odysseys and Northstars rule right now, for performance and longevity. They are pricey though.
Is it Interstate that now owns Optima? I've heard from a couple of different sources that their quality has dropped significantly. Odyssey seems to be the recommendation typically.

Both times the dealer said they were putting in AGM batteries. I'm sure nobody on the forum has ever been given incorrect information by someone at a dealership. Looking at the paperwork this go round, they installed a BB94R750AA. I suspect this is not an AGM battery. Can you confirm?

Granite Crystal 2014 TH 3.2
- Tech/Comfort/Conv/Tow and Leather Groups
- Sunrooof, Hood Decal, UC 8.4, 9 Spkr w/CD
Mods and Additions:
- 265/65R17 BFG A/T KO2's
- Front Runner 57.5" Rack
- HazzardSky Lift
- hehateme2812 A-Pillar mounts
- RRO Supersliders
- Rigid SAE/DOT fog lights w/JK mounts
- Rigid 10" amber SR2 front driving pattern bar
- Rigid SR Diffused Backup Lights
- L/R Rear factory fog lights
- 48" Hi-Lift Rescue Jack mounted on rear seat backs
- Viair 450C w/3 gallon tank
+...
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by StealthHawk View Post
Is it Interstate that now owns Optima? I've heard from a couple of different sources that their quality has dropped significantly. Odyssey seems to be the recommendation typically.

Both times the dealer said they were putting in AGM batteries. I'm sure nobody on the forum has ever been given incorrect information by someone at a dealership. Looking at the paperwork this go round, they installed a BB94R750AA. I suspect this is not an AGM battery. Can you confirm?
Oops yeah... that one is a wet 94R, going for $125 from online Mopar resellers right now (was $184 it seems). Dare I ask how much you paid ?
http://www.moparamerica.com/chrysler...t/battery-scat

About Optima : apparently they were bought out by Johnson Controls, like many others. JC battery quality is all over the spectrum but generally on the cheap/low end.

Odyssey is getting very stiff competition from Northstar. I was reading on solar and boating sites where you usually find the real battery maniacs, and that's where I got my info. Northstars are now distributed by Exide in North America (but not made by nor branded Exide). Odyssey has a smaller distribution scheme going on. I would buy either.

There is a huge battery consortium which was formed not long ago, and AGMs are being made by only a few manufacturers, then branded per commercial deals with however wants one. To see an AC Delco AGM battery being a rebadged Exide is kinda weird...

My avatar is the Elder Predator (goes well with my forum status and overall temper )
2015 North (Canada) - V6 - AD1
Cold, Tow, 8.4A, 9 speakers with sub

Last edited by Mark_; 02-02-2017 at 11:31 PM. Reason: it's oops not opps
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
Oops yeah... that one is a wet 94R, going for $125 from online Mopar resellers right now (was $184 it seems). Dare I ask how much you paid ?
http://www.moparamerica.com/chrysler...t/battery-scat

About Optima : apparently they were bought out by Johnson Controls, like many others. JC battery quality is all over the spectrum but generally on the cheap/low end.

Odyssey is getting very stiff competition from Northstar. I was reading on solar and boating sites where you usually find the real battery maniacs, and that's where I got my info. Northstars are now distributed by Exide in North America (but not made by nor branded Exide). Odyssey has a smaller distribution scheme going on. I would buy either.

There is a huge battery consortium which was formed not long ago, and AGMs are being made by only a few manufacturers, then branded per commercial deals with however wants one. To see an AC Delco AGM battery being a rebadged Exide is kinda weird...
Saturday at the dealer with the battery out for load testing... $184US charging system tested and new battery installed - out the door. I couldn't find the correct size Odyssey in stock locally and 4WheelParts couldn't have it for a week. They quoted $229US for the Odyssey. I had somewhere to be for work the following Monday where driving the Trailhawk would be needed as well as a whole lot of fun in the mud. Kind of nice to be getting paid to drive in the mud and play a little. Took about $5 in quarters at the spray wash to get enough of the mud cleaned off so they would let me into my normal car wash.

Granite Crystal 2014 TH 3.2
- Tech/Comfort/Conv/Tow and Leather Groups
- Sunrooof, Hood Decal, UC 8.4, 9 Spkr w/CD
Mods and Additions:
- 265/65R17 BFG A/T KO2's
- Front Runner 57.5" Rack
- HazzardSky Lift
- hehateme2812 A-Pillar mounts
- RRO Supersliders
- Rigid SAE/DOT fog lights w/JK mounts
- Rigid 10" amber SR2 front driving pattern bar
- Rigid SR Diffused Backup Lights
- L/R Rear factory fog lights
- 48" Hi-Lift Rescue Jack mounted on rear seat backs
- Viair 450C w/3 gallon tank
+...
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by StealthHawk View Post
Saturday at the dealer with the battery out for load testing... $184US charging system tested and new battery installed - out the door. I couldn't find the correct size Odyssey in stock locally and 4WheelParts couldn't have it for a week. They quoted $229US for the Odyssey. I had somewhere to be for work the following Monday where driving the Trailhawk would be needed as well as a whole lot of fun in the mud. Kind of nice to be getting paid to drive in the mud and play a little. Took about $5 in quarters at the spray wash to get enough of the mud cleaned off so they would let me into my normal car wash.
I've been doing more digging around... and the result is depressing... Why ? The Odyssey I linked to on Amazon, is the exact same battery as the Exide Edge, the Duracell Platinum, the Bosch Platinum, the Interstate AGM, the Energizer Max, the DieHard Gold, the AC Delco Professional... and those are the ones I found quickly so I'm sure there are more.

I'm not kidding^^. I looked at all those batteries and the cases are identical, so are the specs (only checked quickly).

And when you search for info, you get almost nothing... because they want it like that. For example, Exide had the Wal Mart deal (exclusive) for years, the store brand batteries were all Exides. Then Wal Mart decided to open up the game and they let Johnson Controls have a piece of that lucrative market, and Exide was essentially ruined... as in bankrupt... but they didn't die.
When you look at Odyssey batteries, it seems the car division went with all the others... meaning build them cheap, share the same battery with others and stick your name on it.

I took a picture of the battery in my 2015 (V6 so I have an AGM) two weeks ago. I did that because we can't see the labels when the cover is on. I had to take the battery out to install new headlight bulbs, so I took the pic. Interestingly, the battery I have appears to no longer exist. The part number is virtually untraceable, the cranking Amps numbers don't match with any existing brand name AGM that I can find out there, and best of all, it is a match for the case shared by Exide, Odyssey, Duracell, etc... It is as though FCA bought a batch, probably from the lowest bidder, and either the model just vanished to be replaced with 94Rs, or the numbers I have on the label have been tweaked a little by FCA, to avoid matching it up with existing big brand batteries. All I need to do now is measure the battery, which I should have done when I had it out the other day... so that I can compare apples with apples and find a match.

Now that I know all this, I will not buy an Odyssey car battery, because the price I saw on Amazon is much higher than what you would pay for an identical Energizer Max or whichever clone of it you can find on sale somewhere...

Looking some more as I write this, I think I have my answer. Johnson Controls is making all these AGMs I mentionned up there. Proof ? Look at their page, the Varta bunch, the Varta in the middle with the two handles facing one another... that's the battery right there. Oh and you can add Varta to that long list of JC clones...
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/batte...battery-brands

Now that I've found this, I have to think the only AGM I want is a Northstar... (Northstar Brand, X2 Power AGM from Batteriesplus, one of the Canadian Tire AGMs is a Northstar, and there are maybe one or two more rebranded Northstars out there...).

Yuck.

My avatar is the Elder Predator (goes well with my forum status and overall temper )
2015 North (Canada) - V6 - AD1
Cold, Tow, 8.4A, 9 speakers with sub

Last edited by Mark_; 02-03-2017 at 12:59 AM. Reason: typos edited
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
I've been doing more digging around... and the result is depressing... Why ? The Odyssey I linked to on Amazon, is the exact same battery as the Exide, the Duracell Platinum, the Bosch Platinum, the Interstate AGM, the Energizer Max, the DieHard Gold, the AC Delco Professional... and those are the ones I found quickly so I'm sure there are more.

I'm not kidding^^. I looked at all those batteries and the cases are identical, so are the specs (only checked quickly).

And when you search for info, you get almost nothing... because they want it like that. For example, Exide had the Wal Mart deal (exclusive) for years, the store brand batteries were all Exides. Then Wal Mart decided to open up the game and they let Johnson Controls have a piece of that lucrative market, and Exide was essentially ruined... as in bankrupt... but they didn't die.
When you look at Odyssey batteries, it seems the car division went with all the others... meaning build them cheap, share the same battery with others and stick your name on it.

I took a picture of the battery in my 2015 (V6 so I have an AGM) two weeks ago. I did that because we can't see the labels when the cover is on. I had to take the battery out to install new headlight bulbs, so I took the pic. Interestingly, the battery I have appears to no longer exist. The part number is virtually untraceable, the cranking Amps numbers don't match with any existing brand name AGM that I can find out there, and best of all, it is a match for the case shared by Exide, Odyssey, Duracell, etc... It is as though FCA bought a batch, probably from the lowest bidder, and either the model just vanished to be replaced with 94Rs, or the numbers I have on the label have been tweaked a little by FCA, to avoid matching it up with existing big brand batteries. All I need to do now is measure the battery, which I should have done when I had it out the other day... so that I can compare apples with apples and find a match.

Now that I know all this, I will not buy an Odyssey car battery, because the price I saw on Amazon si hiogher than what you would pay for an identical Energizer Max or whichever clone of it you can find on sale somewhere...

Looking some more as I write this, I think I have my answer. Johnson Controls is making all these AGMs I mentionned up there. Proof ? Look at their page, the Varta bunch, the Varta in the middle with the two handles facing one another... that's the battery right there. Oh and you can add Varta to that long list of JC clones...
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/batte...battery-brands

Now that I've found this, I have to think the only AGM I want is a Northstar... (Northstar Brand, X2 Power AGM from Batteriesplus, one of the Canadian Tire AGMs is a Northstar, and there are maybe one or two more rebranded Northstars out there...).

Yuck.
You've been busy researching, On the allmoparparts.com site you previously had a link for, I found a BBAH7800AA listing for $277 and on sale for $188 w/800 CCA. Is this likely to be the Mopar AGM unit you have?


Granite Crystal 2014 TH 3.2
- Tech/Comfort/Conv/Tow and Leather Groups
- Sunrooof, Hood Decal, UC 8.4, 9 Spkr w/CD
Mods and Additions:
- 265/65R17 BFG A/T KO2's
- Front Runner 57.5" Rack
- HazzardSky Lift
- hehateme2812 A-Pillar mounts
- RRO Supersliders
- Rigid SAE/DOT fog lights w/JK mounts
- Rigid 10" amber SR2 front driving pattern bar
- Rigid SR Diffused Backup Lights
- L/R Rear factory fog lights
- 48" Hi-Lift Rescue Jack mounted on rear seat backs
- Viair 450C w/3 gallon tank
+...
StealthHawk is online now  
post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by StealthHawk View Post
You've been busy researching, On the allmoparparts.com site you previously had a link for, I found a BBAH7800AA listing for $277 and on sale for $188 w/800 CCA. Is this likely to be the Mopar AGM unit you have?
AHhhh... nice detective work yourself there. Yes indeed. See picture below (my battery) :

See the part# there : 56029695AA, which is a match to one part number on the page you linked to (they have Part Number: BBAH7800AA ; 05033394AA; 56029695AA). So Bingo !

I couldn't find it because they've switched the numbers twice already, for a total of 3 different ones. On a Mopar Canada site, I've found this battery with the mention *This product is no longer available* Heh, seems I may have been right and it has been replaced...
https://www.moparpartsoverstock.com/...BAH7800AA.html


Looking some more I find this battery listed as OEM for a 2013 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L V8... the plot thickens...
https://www.parts.com/index.cfm?fuse...00-amp-BATTERY

My avatar is the Elder Predator (goes well with my forum status and overall temper )
2015 North (Canada) - V6 - AD1
Cold, Tow, 8.4A, 9 speakers with sub

Last edited by Mark_; 02-03-2017 at 01:25 AM. Reason: yeah I write too fast and don't proof read...
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Dealership called, it was the battery. It failed the test so they replaced it under warranty. Now they're doing an oil change and I'm gonna pick it up later. When I pick it up I'm gonna drive it a block then install the 8.4 uconnect radio I got for it, then drive back and make them flash it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

2014 Cherokee Sport AWD 2.4L I4 16V
Mileage: 27k+, Bought @ 18K in 2016
Issues: 2 = Ignition Coil & Battery went bad, Both replaced under warranty

Status: Running perfectly


Upgrades:
* Uconnect 8.4 RA4 w/ Nav
* Interior LED foot well lights
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by shemmar360 View Post
Dealership called, it was the battery. It failed the test so they replaced it under warranty. Now they're doing an oil change and I'm gonna pick it up later. When I pick it up I'm gonna drive it a block then install the 8.4 uconnect radio I got for it, then drive back and make them flash it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
That's good news !

Oh and sorry for the mega off-topic slide I took there, with all that battery stuff... Guess it fascinates me

But anyway, if you ever need a new battery outside warranty, you have some tips on which way to go here, haha.

Good luck with the 8.4 project
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My avatar is the Elder Predator (goes well with my forum status and overall temper )
2015 North (Canada) - V6 - AD1
Cold, Tow, 8.4A, 9 speakers with sub
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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
That's good news !

Oh and sorry for the mega off-topic slide I took there, with all that battery stuff... Guess it fascinates me

But anyway, if you ever need a new battery outside warranty, you have some tips on which way to go here, haha.

Good luck with the 8.4 project
Haha no problems, thanks it's some very useful information for the future.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
Mark_ likes this.

2014 Cherokee Sport AWD 2.4L I4 16V
Mileage: 27k+, Bought @ 18K in 2016
Issues: 2 = Ignition Coil & Battery went bad, Both replaced under warranty

Status: Running perfectly


Upgrades:
* Uconnect 8.4 RA4 w/ Nav
* Interior LED foot well lights
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