10W30 oil is fine to pentastar 3.2? - Page 2 - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo Meisels View Post
Well they did it was probably the most expensive 10W30 sold on the planet for $139 / 5.5L
Yeah we have a few Australian and New Zealand members on the forum who have reported how much car maintenance costs down there... oh boy... what a difference with North America. For example, a typical oil change for the Cherokee here in Canada, with a 3.2L, wil cost maybe $80 or $90 dollars, with full synthetic oil (including oil filter). Since the 3.2L does accept conventional 5W20 oil also, you can get an oil change with that for roughly $40-$50. And guess what, it is cheaper than that in the US. And one more major difference : we can do our own oil changes at home, while you guys cannot. Different laws... I did my last oil change at home, with full synthetic 5W20, for roughly $45 total.

One of our Australian members, @David_Baker, may be able to help you get in touch with the right people, because he has been dealing with FCA Australia directly for a few things like Navigation map updates. And he seems to know the *system* down there quite well.

Oh and by the way, member @Desoto who replied to you, up a few posts, runs a taxi service in San Francisco and he has some Cherokees in his fleet of taxis. 4 cylinders and V6s. Some have over 250.000 Km on them already (150.000 miles). He is also doing different experiments on the Cherokees under FCA supervision, and one of those experiements is (if I read that right) to run 3.2L engines on 5 litres of oil instead of the normal 6 litres required. So there is experience and knowledge behind his comments on 10W30 oil in the Pentastars... so yeah, get that oil out as fast as you can... and ask for 5W20 that carries the Chrysler MS-6395 specification on the bottle, like Shell Helix Ultra has.

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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your help.

I got a resolution number from FCA after two emails and a long phone conversation.
It will take at least 4-5 days to get me back so in the meantime I`ll replace the oil first thing tomorrow because I need the car.

There is four types of oil I can easily buy in my area, do you have any experience or advice?

- NULON 5W20 FULL SYNTHETIC FUEL CONSERVING ENGINE OIL
- MOBIL 1 FULL SYNTHETIC 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 0W20
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:00 AM
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Demand a new engine on their dime since originally they were all to happy to price gouge you on the wrong conventional oil haha
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo Meisels View Post
Thank you for your help.

I got a resolution number from FCA after two emails and a long phone conversation.
It will take at least 4-5 days to get me back so in the meantime I`ll replace the oil first thing tomorrow because I need the car.

There is four types of oil I can easily buy in my area, do you have any experience or advice?

- NULON 5W20 FULL SYNTHETIC FUEL CONSERVING ENGINE OIL
- MOBIL 1 FULL SYNTHETIC 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 0W20
I have used Amzoil and Mobile 1 full synthetic oil for years in my vehicles. My 95 Cherokee XJ has over 220,000 miles on it and is still on the original engine and trans.
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 02:27 AM Thread Starter
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Demand a new engine on their dime since originally they were all to happy to price gouge you on the wrong conventional oil haha
Actually I`m thinking to ask for extended warranty on the engine.
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 03:59 AM
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Since it is just after the summer season and still very warm I don't think 10w30 will do any harm at all. If it were -10°c I think you 'may' have oil starving issues when first started (but I highly doubt it) but not at the +20°c to +30°c temps down here.

The lighter spec oils to be honest are mostly used these days to reduce engine load and therfore give better economy figures. They are not used to prolong engine life..

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks David,

I found similar opinion on an other forum:

"The short answer to your question is 0W-20 weight oil is distributed principally in North America in response to the demands of the United States' automobile industry, which must meet the requirements of the U.S. "CAFE" (corporate average fuel economy) law or pay graduating penalties for failing to do so. The lower viscosity of 0W-20 weight oil saves fuel principally on start-up at lower temperatures, and it performs well in a relatively low rpm, light-load operating environment. Urban environments, in other words. When used in millions of automobiles, it results in a significant fleet-wide fuel savings. Moreover, to the extent that an automobile manufacturer's fleet average betters that required by U.S. law, a manufacturer can earn and sell the energy credits to other manufacturers, and Honda does this. Honda's U.S. energy credits are worth literally tens of millions of dollars each year. Last year, for example, Honda earned over $900 million from CAFE energy credit sales. Toyota Motor Company earned near three trillion US$. In the absence of those financial incentives, however, the potential fuel savings for individual vehicle owners are simply less important. And then there's the fact that 5W-30 and 10W-30 oils provide a greater margin of viscosity film-strength in a higher rpm, higher-temperature environment, which is what you are much more likely to experience in Australia."
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 07:47 AM
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There are a few misinformation or partial truths in this thread.

To put it all together, the first number is the winter rating it has nothing to do with the oil weight. A lower number means the oil will yield better viscosity at lower temperatures. a 10W-x oil will be much thicker at a cold temp than a 5W of the same weight and temp. The second number after the "w" is the viscosity (sometimes referred to as weight). This directly relates to the oil's lubrication capability and surface tension. The higher the number the "thicker" the oil.

Having said all that, The oil wight is very important. The oil jackets in the engine are designed to move oil of a specific weight. Furthermore, there are several friction type bearings that rely on the oil's surface tension to maintain tolerances. Today's engines require lighter oil because machining tolerances have improved. Additionally, there are more roller type bearings in the engine than these friction types that literally spin on a bed of oil.

Thicker oil is often used to quiet an oil high mileage engine as a way of compensating for the wear that has taken place. The problem with using it in a new engine is that it may not be getting to all the places it needs to go and will increase wear. Likely not to a point you will see immediate damage, but it will cause long term problems.

To the OP, your dealer hit you with a 1-2 whammy. Thicker oil with a higher winter rating during winter. I would request that they show you where the oil used is okay in the manual. When they don't find it, ask for it to be changed.

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Meisels View Post
Thank you for your help.

I got a resolution number from FCA after two emails and a long phone conversation.
It will take at least 4-5 days to get me back so in the meantime I`ll replace the oil first thing tomorrow because I need the car.

There is four types of oil I can easily buy in my area, do you have any experience or advice?

- NULON 5W20 FULL SYNTHETIC FUEL CONSERVING ENGINE OIL
- MOBIL 1 FULL SYNTHETIC 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 5W20
- PENRITE ENIVRO PLUS ENIGINE OIL 0W20
Hi again and sorry for the delay... but had to sleep...
From that list, only the PENRITE 5W20 meets Chrysler MS-6395 spec.

Now when I said get that 10W30 oil out soon, I should have said *as soon as possible* at a dealership. Because you are in Australia, you should have the oil changed by a certified mechanic only. And because the dealership screwed up in the first place, you should have them replace the oil, so everything is properly documented should anything happen down the road... especially warranty issues...
You can drive a few days with 10W30.

But you should also consider what @Desoto said about 10W30 in the Pentastars. Not a good idea, at all... and this is specific to the Pentastars so *conventional oil wisdom* may not (does not) apply here. Special case if you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS_Syndicate View Post
There are a few misinformation or partial truths in this thread.

To put it all together, the first number is the winter rating it has nothing to do with the oil weight. A lower number means the oil will yield better viscosity at lower temperatures. a 10W-x oil will be much thicker at a cold temp than a 5W of the same weight and temp. The second number after the "w" is the viscosity (sometimes referred to as weight). This directly relates to the oil's lubrication capability and surface tension. The higher the number the "thicker" the oil.

Having said all that, The oil wight is very important. The oil jackets in the engine are designed to move oil of a specific weight. Furthermore, there are several friction type bearings that rely on the oil's surface tension to maintain tolerances. Today's engines require lighter oil because machining tolerances have improved. Additionally, there are more roller type bearings in the engine than these friction types that literally spin on a bed of oil.

Thicker oil is often used to quiet an oil high mileage engine as a way of compensating for the wear that has taken place. The problem with using it in a new engine is that it may not be getting to all the places it needs to go and will increase wear. Likely not to a point you will see immediate damage, but it will cause long term problems.

To the OP, your dealer hit you with a 1-2 whammy. Thicker oil with a higher winter rating during winter. I would request that they show you where the oil used is okay in the manual. When they don't find it, ask for it to be changed.
It's almost fall in Melbourne (a few days away from the solstice), but the "winter" there is like daytime highs in the high 50s and 60s.

And I agree that newer engines are built very differently than back in the days where we'd put in *winter* and *summer* oils. I really can't understand how a big FCA dealership can fill a 3.2 with 10W30... when a) it goes against the manual's recommendation, b) that specific Helix is semi-synthetic but even the 5W20 doesn't carry the MS-6395 spec. Having the correct engine oil at a dealership is... vital. FCA Australia needs to hear about this pronto.

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Meisels View Post
Hi,

I just had my 60.000km logbook service at an official Jeep dealership and they put 10W30 Shell Helix into my Cherokee Trailhawk.
If I`m right the spec is 5W20.

Is it ok, should I do something?
No its not OK and you should do something!
Per owners manual: 5W20 conforming to the MS6395 Chrysler standard for your 3.2 Cherokee. That should be the end of the discussion with the dealer.
Now I would immediately get them to change it out with the proper 5w20 oil.
The Engine is specific to the oil required. Its not like the old days where you could run a heavier weight oil if you wish.
Frankly I use Pennzoil full synthetic 5w20 MS6395 in my engine with changes at 30% on the meter.
You do need to verify that MS6395 on the back of the oil.

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