10W30 oil is fine to pentastar 3.2? - Page 5 - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums
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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfrik View Post
The V6 requires 5/20 but it doesn't need to be synthetic. The I4 does need synthetic, how ever.


This is true. I think they recommend semi-synthetic, but since its the same price as full synthetic it's what I have used.

My bad on the stating full synthetic. My FIL is a retired but log time mechanic. He only recently started trusting synthetics as a while back, at least a decade, he rebuilt and engine with full boring out of the pistons, new piston size and rings and with the synthetic at the tie being so thin, the engine blew, and he was sure that the synthetic went through the rings and fouled up things.

With older engines using thicker viscosity lubricants, you never wanted to switch an larger engine Oberto full synthetic if it was used to thicker viscosity lubricants.

This may be where our OP runs into trouble if the engine is switched back to a semi- or full synthetic low viscosity engine oil. The oil pump and such may be conditioned to the thicker lubricant.

Either way, not an ideal situation at all. I would definitely let FCA Australia have all the details and go from there.

Hopefully everything is still under the full power train warranty. I would want it switched and the engine to thrive or fail while still fully covered under FCA warranty. If you have to have your engine replaced so be it, but I might wonder if putting in a new engine would adversely affect the transmission system.


I know that with exoticars like Ferrari te engine and tranny sort of meld together. They sand cast the engines and destroy the sand cast after 5 uses and usually Ferrari QC kicks back one or two of the engines back to be re-smelted, and problems with engines usually require a full/complete powertrain swap out as the two units meld together over the break in process.

I know our Jeeps are not the same hand built machines that Ferraris are but it would definitely linger in the back of my mind.

I hate big time mistakes by dealerships that are paid to get things right the first through last time.

Vehicles just aren't built these days as they were in the 50-mid-90s where everything is so interchangeable without comparability issues.

We pay a heck of a lot more for them and they should last a lot longer with proper PMCS.


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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
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I replaced the oil yesterday with Penrite Enviro+ 5w20 and I can feel the difference.
It used to have a small lag duing acceleration from standstill at low rpm like a small turbo lag, now it disappeared completely and I have a smooth acceleration even from low rpms.
I'll check for excessive oil consumption as I'm quite worried going to a much thinner oil, usually we go the other way with old engines.
My other worry that it seems like rather being the standard than an accident here in Australia and how could we warn fellow jeep owners to check for oil types even/especially when servicing with an official dealer.
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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 08:32 AM
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For what it's worth, the Pentastar in my wife's new Pacifica requires 0w-20. They've also reduced the oil capacity to 5 quarts.

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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by generaltso View Post
For what it's worth, the Pentastar in my wife's new Pacifica requires 0w-20. They've also reduced the oil capacity to 5 quarts.
Interesting. Sounds like a Pentastar evolution. I will have to look into this, out of curiosity. Member @Desoto reported a while ago he was testing 5 quart fills in Pentastars.

If this is an engine evolution, I hope low end torque has gained a few foot pounds !
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 11:13 AM
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Interesting article......
"Jeep recommends oil that meets or exceeds MS-6395. This is an old and outdated specification and it can be tricky to find oil with it. The type of oil we are using in this write up has NOT been tested for MS-6395. It does however meet or exceed the required specifications. If you are concerned about warranty ramifications, Mobil Super Synthetic does have MS-6395 approval but was not available for us locally. It also is vastly more expensive."

Actually, Chrysler/Jeep only recommends MS6395 certified oil that meets Chrysler's standards. They do not say "recommends" oil that meets or exceeds". The key words are "has not been tested" which is part of the requirements for MS approval process.
Actually the claim of it being an "outdated specification and it can be tricky to find oil with it", is not completely accurate. I have had no issues finding oil in the 5/20 MS requirement.Not all oil has it but common oil like Pennzoil or Valvoline have the MS standardin the 5/20that my Cherokee uses. In fact a different weight of oil in those brands may not have the MS 6395 certification.
Also I do not understand "outdated specification". Basically I read that entire statement as justification to use their oil regardless of the lack of Chrysler's MS6395.

But to be clear,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Mobil 1 oil and I believe it will do nothing to impact your warranty or the engine by using it but there is that small issue of MS6395 not being certified for Mobil 1.
There is also a difference in word semantics in the manual. That is "recommends only" vs saying "requires" MS 6395 is a big difference when it comes to warranty issues in my opinion.
But in the real world with available oil brands that do have the MS6395 certification I see no reason to vary off to the ones that do not carry that certification. Pennzoil full synthetic, which I consider a high quality oil, which I do use carries the MS6395 on the label.
I would just suggest that Mobil 1 get on the stick and certify their oil for us instead of minimizing the semantics in their statement. It is either MS6395 certified or not. If its not on the label then its not certified, regardless of what they are trying to say




Quote:
Originally Posted by SS_Syndicate View Post
For the record, I never referenced what the "manual" said. I stated what "Jeep" recommends. I have contacts within Jeep where I discussed this. I also have (in writing) from my dealer that they do not use MS-6395 certified oil but rather an oil that exceeds its rating.

I'm happy you can find the oil locally, but I can't. So I stand behind my statement along with it being outdated (I consider a document 15 years old outdated).

The article was to help people change their oil, there is no reason to get butt-hurt about my views. Take it or leave it... Frankly I don'y give a crap.

Edit to add, and since semantics seem to be an issue. Here is an excerpt from the manual. Note: It doesn't say it has to me certified for MS-6395, but rather the manufacturer "only recommends" engine oils that "meet the requirements" of it and are API certified. A recommendation isn't a requirement....

The manual does go on to say that only oils of the proper SAE viscosity grade and API seal should be used. The API seal is not for MS-6395 though.

I With SS on this also this.. Quoting WO 1 OA (Oil Analysis) to back up keystroke claims, Oil is spec to the tolerance of the rotating mass... NOT 1 comment that I've seen tore town there engine measured the clearances.... FCA builds 100,000s of engines so it must spec oil that will work in all of them , That's NOT a guarantee that 0-20w 10-30w is the correct viscosity, (Cold weather rules do apply) UNLESS YOU DO OAs WITH ESTABLISH TRENDS. I will run 10-30w and let My OA dictate what to use.....You need ALOT more then OE recommendation to condemn oils. Now their are engines that require supplements that's different than manufactures Spec #s .


Run your oil of choice and let your OAs dictate, the grade type, and additive package.. last time I checked the 3.2 has Rods and main bearing, Pistons, Rotating mass that needs lubrication, just like millions of other engines.


Here's My ED OA, My KL will get its 1st OA shortly, it only has 1800 miles.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 15 ECODIESEL-oil Blackstone.pdf (22.7 KB, 12 views)
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post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
Interesting. Sounds like a Pentastar evolution. I will have to look into this, out of curiosity. Member @Desoto reported a while ago he was testing 5 quart fills in Pentastars.

If this is an engine evolution, I hope low end torque has gained a few foot pounds !
The Pentastar in the Pacifica is a 3.6 liter and is rated for 287hp and 262 lb-ft of torque. I think they changed the oil pan to get the oil capacity down to 5 quarts. Interestingly, there are several owners in the Pacifica forum that have reported needing 6 quarts. But all the published specs say 5 quarts, and there are also several owners reporting 5 quarts is accurate. It's a bit of a mystery.
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:31 PM
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It seems as if the Pacifica's Pentastar is similar if not exact to what the original 3.6L used in the 2011 introduction period as far as hp and torque, or not far off. They could have reduced the size of the filter, which is getting more common in other cars or at least having the option to have less tall options, which FCA might hope that this drives in more dealer traffic for more frequent oil changes. Who knows the exact bureaucratic thought process of which exact model of Pentastar to put in each vehicle. In my WK2, the 3.6L V6, was not transposed and it left a lot of spare engine bay room as they were the same bays for both sizes of V8 Hemis.

I do believe the Pentastar is a good engine now that they have worked out many of the finer issues. I had exactly zero engine issues with the WK2 that was traded for the TH in 2016.

Other manufacturers might be trying to push HP/torque while trying to keep MOG cafe standards under control, but certainly Mazda, Honda and Toyota have no worries with most of their biggest selling vehicles powered by 4 cylinders or hybrids. Toyota still has the V6s in the truck and SUV line up but with so many Prius to counter that I'm certain their very safe. It's companies with huge truck fleets, muscle cars and specialty companies like Land River that are getting a bit hurt by the ever rising requirements for a certain manufacturer.

There is a pretty large Rover Defender fan base and they continuously try to get the ban on the current Defender lifted. Perhaps selling many Disco sports or Evoques may help but I doubt they will ever let the Defender on US shores again which is too bad. It certainly is up the with vehicles like the RAM Rebel, the Ford Raptor and Biggest GM trucks, but they have nothing to really balance that out. Perhaps if the buy out Mini they might have a chance.

I wonder how many Challenger Hellcats actually sell compared with the normal versions of the RT/RS? or if the number of big trucks that are full sized in engine that are not part of the Bigs commercial sales effect their cafe standards? It probably helps GM that they have a healthy following of volt customers as well as Ford having a big Fusion and Escape hybrid crowd.

Is there a fully electric version of the Fiat 500. Those vehicles sell a lot in other markets.

I also wonder if Nissan has worries with their Full size pick ups and SUVs being so popular as well as the Z cars and the rarely seen GT-R. I maybe have seen two in my travels in the US.

Hopefully the Pentastar keeps improving and show their longevity, which is what most of us are probably concerned with.

Go Jeep, and please don't put a battery in are off road, trail rated Jeeps. I just don't want to go there. Batteries use some toxic substances and full recycling isn't really possible nor does the EPA or other groups ever seem to address this.

Sorry to pull the thread way off track. These were just things running through my mind. I hope I can keep my 2016 TH for as long as I'm around as I do worry what the choices will look like 10 years down the road. I surely don't want to have to buy a Wrangler Unlimited with a battery. That would be a sorry option.


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