AGM Battery Overheating - Bad IBS? - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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AGM Battery Overheating - Bad IBS?

As others have mentioned, I've seen numerous alerts in the EVIC pertaining to failures of the Stop/Start system on my 2016 Latitude 6 cyl. This first happened last fall on a trip to upstate NY; the "Service Stop/Start" message appeared, then about 30 minutes later, I began to smell sulfuric acid fumes coming from the battery, which had severely overheated. The following day, I found a dealer near Rochester who flashed some firmware updates that were supposed to correct the problem. He showed me the battery test results, which indicated that it "passed" and was therefore ineligible for replacement under warranty.

I got through the winter without major issues, although sometimes I wondered if the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) was functioning properly. For example, once the engine warmed up about ten minutes after a cold start, ESS would begin operating correctly -- but then, after 30 minutes of daytime highway driving with very little load on the electrical system, the EVIC would show a "Stop/Start Not Ready - Battery Charging" message, which didn't make much sense, since the battery sensor had apparently seen sufficient charge earlier.

Last week, the "Service Stop/Start" warning popped up again after several hours of highway driving and about an hour later, I began smelling battery fumes. Fortunately, I was only 3 miles from home -- so once in the driveway, I recorded this 2 minute video as proof of the problem. Same symptoms as before; battery was very hot and vapors were venting from the negative side. Next morning, I checked the voltage with a DVM and it was down to 12.19 V.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B21...ew?usp=sharing

I discussed this with my local dealer yesterday and set up an appointment to have it serviced on Monday. Has anyone had similar problems with overheated AGM batteries? Are there any service bulletins that require IBS replacement? Thank you for any advice you can offer.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 10:31 AM
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I have never experienced this, but I would wipe down any painted surfaces around the battery, including the underside of the hood, as these sulfuric acid fumes are very acidic and will "eat" through the paint. Just an FYI. Maybe you already did this.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40_over_S9 View Post
As others have mentioned, I've seen numerous alerts in the EVIC pertaining to failures of the Stop/Start system on my 2016 Latitude 6 cyl. This first happened last fall on a trip to upstate NY; the "Service Stop/Start" message appeared, then about 30 minutes later, I began to smell sulfuric acid fumes coming from the battery, which had severely overheated. The following day, I found a dealer near Rochester who flashed some firmware updates that were supposed to correct the problem. He showed me the battery test results, which indicated that it "passed" and was therefore ineligible for replacement under warranty.

I got through the winter without major issues, although sometimes I wondered if the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) was functioning properly. For example, once the engine warmed up about ten minutes after a cold start, ESS would begin operating correctly -- but then, after 30 minutes of daytime highway driving with very little load on the electrical system, the EVIC would show a "Stop/Start Not Ready - Battery Charging" message, which didn't make much sense, since the battery sensor had apparently seen sufficient charge earlier.

Last week, the "Service Stop/Start" warning popped up again after several hours of highway driving and about an hour later, I began smelling battery fumes. Fortunately, I was only 3 miles from home -- so once in the driveway, I recorded this 2 minute video as proof of the problem. Same symptoms as before; battery was very hot and vapors were venting from the negative side. Next morning, I checked the voltage with a DVM and it was down to 12.19 V.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B21...ew?usp=sharing

I discussed this with my local dealer yesterday and set up an appointment to have it serviced on Monday. Has anyone had similar problems with overheated AGM batteries? Are there any service bulletins that require IBS replacement? Thank you for any advice you can offer.
Hi there !

I wasn't even aware AGM batteries could vent like that... but I've found other instances of this on other forums, so yeah... not good at all. From what I've read, your battery is toast. The smell of sulfur comes from battery sulfation, which is not good and a sign of advanced degradation. The overheating would also be caused by internal sulfation, and those fumes are proof of that.

12.19V resting voltage is too low and also a sign the battery needs to be replaced. You should be getting resting numbers of no less than 12.5V.

If your current dealer refuses to get you a new battery, go to another dealer and show them the video. AGM batteries should NEVER vent like that...

Now as to why this happened : I don't know, but there seems to have been a charging problem. Was it fixed with the flashes they did ? I can't say one way or the other. Is the IBS Ok or not ? Again, I can't say from where I'm sitting... I also don't know if you have ever abused the battery in any way (not accusing or judging here, just doing an elimination process...).

With that all said, I think the best solution going forward is to get a new battery ASAP and go from there. You'll know quickly if the IBS is good once you have a healthy battery installed...

Good luck and keep us posted.

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Last edited by Mark_; 05-13-2017 at 11:10 AM. Reason: typos, what else.. ;)
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40_over_S9 View Post
.... Has anyone had similar problems with overheated AGM batteries? Are there any service bulletins that require IBS replacement?
Don't recall anyone reporting an overheating AGM or the venting you described, nor do I recall any TSB related to the ISB. Like you, I would be worried about an overheating battery, particularly if there is risk of a fire.

It's not like pre-computing days when the voltage regulator/alternator would be a simple suspect.

Here is some information on the KL's ISB:

The Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) serves to record and process measured battery variable values (current,
voltage, temperature) for the vehicle power net management system. The Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS)
will calculate the Battery 'state of charge', 'state of health', and 'state of function'.
The mechanical part of the IBS is comprised of the battery clamp for the negative terminal and a captured
bolt to attach the ground cable to. The functional tasks include establishing the electrical contact between
the body and the negative battery post, housing the electronic module (actual sensor element) and the
provision of an adequate thermal contact between the sensor system temperature sensor and the negative
battery post. The mechanical part of the IBS also protects the sensitive electronic components from external
influences.
The IBS is mounted directly on the 12 VDC battery's negative post. The battery post clamp nut is a captive
nut and the stud will break if the nut is removed.

Operation

The battery sensor measures, calculates and reports battery: voltage, current, temperature, state of charge
and other parameters via a LIN (Local Interconnect Network) bus to a master control module (engine
controller, body controller etc). The battery sensor is used to optimize vehicle performance (maintain battery
charge, fuel economy etc) via the vehicles electrical system
The battery sensor is readable/diagnosable via a "scan tool" that can display all of the available parameters
needed for vehicle servicing or trouble shooting.
Information the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) send out on the CAN Bus is
 SOC = Battery State of Charge: Percentage the residual charge of the battery in respect to its nominal
capacity. In few words represents how much the battery is charged.
 SOH = Battery State of Health: Send a percentage of the real capacity of the battery in respect to the
nominal capacity of the battery. It's so called because during the functioning, the battery is subject to
irreversible processes that reduce its capacity to be recharged and to give energy (battery ageing).
 SOF = Battery State of Function: The prediction of the minimum voltage that will be reached during a
cranking phase
When the IBS is powered up for the first time or is powered after a power disconnection, it goes into a so
called "recalibration" phase, where the IBS must recognize the type of battery and its characteristics and
state. So in this phase the tolerances on the state functions (SOC, SOF, SOH) are greater than in normal
working condition.
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Last edited by Array; 05-13-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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I suspect the maximum charging voltage was set too high at the factory. Prior to the first flash (which was done after 11 months and ~15k miles), I would often read 14.6 V (sometimes 14.7) on the display of my Yaesu transceiver which is connected directly to the fuse block, but the AGM battery has a tag that says not to exceed 14.5 V. After the flash, it came down a few tenths, but I still see 14.4 much of the time. However, the dealer that looked at it last October claims 14.6 is within the permissible range. EVIC voltage indication dropped to 13.9 or so during the venting episode last week. When the starter kicks in, it momentarily drops to around 10.5 V. I wish the battery meter on EVIC had a digital readout, because the "analog" indication is difficult to interpolate to the nearest tenth.

My ham gear is connected to the battery as recommended. On the positive side, I connected an 8 AWG wire to the spare Diesel heater stud on the main fuse block, with inline 30A maxi-fuse. This wire runs through the firewall to a distribution block which feeds individually fused lines to the two radios. The negative leads from the radios are connected to the vehicle chassis, rather than directly to the battery, allowing the IBS to monitor the return current. I shut off the radios when I leave -- but if I forget, they'll automatically shut off after 30 minutes of inactivity. Battery has never been discharged to the point at which the engine wouldn't start, and has never required external charging or a "jump". I've now owned the vehicle about 18 months and it has about ~27 k miles, so it's still under warranty.

I did wash down the battery with clean water after it vented, and hopefully that removed any corrosive residue. A few hours with the windows open eliminated the interior stink.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
Hi there !

I wasn't even aware AGM batteries could vent like that... but I've found other instances of this on other forums, so yeah... not good at all. From what I've read, your battery is toast. The smell of sulfur comes from battery sulfation, which is not good and a sign of advanced degradation. The overheating would also be caused by internal sulfation, and those fumes are proof of that.

12.19V resting voltage is too low and also a sign the battery needs to be replaced. You should be getting resting numbers of no less than 12.5V.

If your current dealer refuses to get you a new battery, go to another dealer and show them the video. AGM batteries should NEVER vent like that...

Now as to why this happened : I don't know, but there seems to have been a charging problem. Was it fixed with the flashes they did ? I can't say one way or the other. Is the IBS Ok or not ? Again, I can't say from where I'm sitting... I also don't know if you have ever abused the battery in any way (not accusing or judging here, just doing an elimination process...).

With that all said, I think the best solution going forward is to get a new battery ASAP and go from there. You'll know quickly if the IBS is good once you have a healthy battery installed...

Good luck and keep us posted.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 01:05 PM
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It should be said at least back when I worked as an interstate battery distributor that if a sealed AGM battery blows its vent tube due to an overcharge state the battery should then be considered bad and be replaced because once the seal is broke it can't be sealed again.


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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 40_over_S9 View Post
I suspect the maximum charging voltage was set too high at the factory. Prior to the first flash (which was done after 11 months and ~15k miles), I would often read 14.6 V (sometimes 14.7) on the display of my Yaesu transceiver which is connected directly to the fuse block, but the AGM battery has a tag that says not to exceed 14.5 V. After the flash, it came down a few tenths, but I still see 14.4 much of the time. However, the dealer that looked at it last October claims 14.6 is within the permissible range. EVIC voltage indication dropped to 13.9 or so during the venting episode last week. When the starter kicks in, it momentarily drops to around 10.5 V. I wish the battery meter on EVIC had a digital readout, because the "analog" indication is difficult to interpolate to the nearest tenth.

My ham gear is connected to the battery as recommended. On the positive side, I connected an 8 AWG wire to the spare Diesel heater stud on the main fuse block, with inline 30A maxi-fuse. This wire runs through the firewall to a distribution block which feeds individually fused lines to the two radios. The negative leads from the radios are connected to the vehicle chassis, rather than directly to the battery, allowing the IBS to monitor the return current. I shut off the radios when I leave -- but if I forget, they'll automatically shut off after 30 minutes of inactivity. Battery has never been discharged to the point at which the engine wouldn't start, and has never required external charging or a "jump". I've now owned the vehicle about 18 months and it has about ~27 k miles, so it's still under warranty.

I did wash down the battery with clean water after it vented, and hopefully that removed any corrosive residue. A few hours with the windows open eliminated the interior stink.
An initial high charging voltage setting would explain overcharging, and I agree that 14.7V is too high.

About internal sulfation : from what I understand, it occurs when battery voltage drops to 11.5V and lower. We could be looking at an initial overcharging problem (before the flashes) which resulted in a slowly degrading battery that would, at rest, dip down to 11.5V (and possibly lower), causing sulfation. And sulfation favors overheating.

About the venting : I don't know enough about how AGMs are put together. Len could be right about a *seal*. One thing is for sure : a venting AGM is no longer good.

FYI : to clean battery spills, an easy mixture to use is baking soda with water. If liquid battery electrolyte is visible, just sprinkle baking soda on it directly to help neutralize the acid.
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Last edited by Mark_; 05-13-2017 at 01:30 PM. Reason: typo
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 03:09 PM
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Mine has the digital readout and a great part of the time it is showing
14.4 only dropping to 14.2 after a highway run then only for a short time.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 04:36 AM
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Mine has never read more than 14.2 that I have noticed, and that is usually only for a split second. It normally fluctuates between 13.9 and 14.0.

I know this as I have been watching it for the last few months as it has been telling me that ESS is available due to battery charging. Suddenly yesterday morning the battery changed from working fine to won't turn over the motor. Has never even hinted at a slow turnover. Vehicle is 18 months old.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 07:31 PM
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Add: Battery was replaced under warranty yesterday.

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