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post #11 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 05:47 AM
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Oh and also to add, I have experienced no 'weird stuff' in the way of service messages, uconnect irregularities, no loss of lane sense nor cruise control, no nothing. Oh actually, I lie. I did have a few days of Uconnect continually saying 'I'm still updating your music catalogue' but I knew what that was. I had ballsed up the download of an album and I didn't fix it for a few days, so whilst I could still manually choose songs, I couldn't use VR in those few days. I found time to redo the USB and all fixed. That was my fault, not the systems.

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post #12 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 06:03 AM
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I would prefer an update every few years to a car, aircraft don't update every year , I keep my cars for at least a decade , in 35 years of driving I have only owned 5 cars , most kept 12-14 years!

I have three recalls for my TH and it's not even a year old. Where is my previous car, zero , my other run about car that's two years old, zero.

I am glad that they are recalling these to stop any issues sure. But the evidence is that a fair few people have had issues, and various glitches now and again. There are also those who don't have any issues , it seems inconsistent , like a lucky dip , it could be we are more connected now, and able to discuss our issues , or it could be the combination of the complexity of cars combined with Fact we can all communicate any issues very quickly .

Again I go back to complex made made devices like aircraft , years ago when I worked on Hornet fighter aircraft , the complexity and software issues and maintenance with that aircraft we huge , when it was brand new, it settled down after few years, but that took a decade, again it was also a 40 million dollar aircraft, it needed a huge amount of Maintence just to keep flying , but the biggest issues was software earlier on, later it becomes mechanical.

I think the car industry is on this edge now , software is now so complex its beyond some car companies ability to keep ahead of the issues, I hate to see what's going to happen when we have autonomous self driving cars.
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post #13 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 06:41 AM
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Again I go back to complex made made devices like aircraft , years ago when I worked on Hornet fighter aircraft , the complexity and software issues and maintenance with that aircraft we huge , when it was brand new, it settled down after few years, but that took a decade,
I can relate to this so much Normandy. Back in the early '90s I was project manager for the cut over of a new system (IBMs new midrange at that time) for one of Australia's 5* premier hotels. We were the Aust. arm of the US based software that was developed to run on that machine for the hotel industry. We were number one in the global market place at that time. It was a huge project and that property chose to go first (London and Cairo were waiting second and third respectively in the months that were to follow pending how Aust went). I was scheduled there for 8 weeks.

All went well for the first 5 weeks. The software performed flawlessly and then I got a niggle in the 6th week. Weird stuff started to happen but not often. I couldn't pin it down. Numerous phone calls to California didn't help. Everything that I reported couldn't be reproduced. I called it in the 7th week that I was not happy to cut over. I was slammed. Cut over or we will be sued was the line given to me and although my Aust boss did go into bat for me and agreed with me, we were forced to go ahead.

Long story, cut short - within 4 days of cut over, that property was brought to its knee's as far as the system went. Tears and carry on with the staff (some even walked out). I was forced to run that property manually which was unheard of at that time. (I had to train them on the fly in the manual system). It was a nightmare. The software even though it had performed to expectation under extensive testing, failed under load, real-time, real situation testing.

It took 5 months to stabilise the software. I have never been so happy to crawl onto a plane back to Sydney from the Gold Coast. I was only supposed to be there for 8 weeks.

Software needs thorough testing. It needs load testing, it needs usability testing, it needs every sort of situation thrown at it testing and vehicle manufacturers just don't have that time given the expectation placed on them for a continual year after year update/refresh of vehicles. The expectation is unrealistic and of course leads to recalls down the line.

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post #14 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SJetc View Post

Software needs thorough testing. It needs load testing, it needs usability testing, it needs every sort of situation thrown at it testing and vehicle manufacturers just don't have that time given the expectation placed on them for a continual year after year update/refresh of vehicles. The expectation is unrealistic and of course leads to recalls down the line.
"+many".

I've ranted on this is other posts. Security and stability are an afterthought in many software development environments, including automative. Life-/safety-critical software development should have NASA-level scrutiny.

The life-cycle and manufacturer support of software products (phones, cars, smart-TV, etc) is too short to expose and fix the problems and the marketing push to get a product out the door means that "no obvious crashes is good enough".

I'm all for convenience, efficiency, performance, etc that software-controlled systems can bring to the automotive world. However, by bringing in something as complex as software you bring in an "infinite" number of un-testable conditions that at some point in the real world will kick in and cause a catastrophic event.

Critical powertrain components either need the NASA-level of diligence or be made simple enough that the finite-state-machine can be fully understood. Integration between powertrain and convenience systems should be airgapped or highly curated. "Hey, engine. Just so you know, I turned the AC on, so decide what you want to do about it" vs "I'm the AC and I'm running, so I'm going to increase the engine revs on my own" (simplistic example).

This isn't even "get off my lawn", it's "can nobody else see the oncoming disaster?". What happens when all this buggy software then gets meshed together with vehicles talking to each other and traffic control signals? Until something horrible happens, though, it's going to be business as usual. Get the product out NOW and if enough people complain, work on the problem.
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Last edited by Rojhan; 08-08-2016 at 07:50 AM.
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post #15 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 10:43 AM
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Parts of the infrastructure are a problem too. The CAN-bus, as an example, is a 1980's network protocol. It surprises me it can stand up to the traffic load with as few glitches as it presents.

The 12 volt system is another example of infrastructure in need of advancement. 24 volt would help power the added technologies.

One of my human-interface complaints is the cigar lighter outlet. When are we going to get an outlet that is not so bulky and prone to failure?
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post #16 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Normandy View Post
O M G , seriously ?

It seems every second week , a new recall . This is getting silly !

Each week I keep getting strange glitches , sensor says tire pressure wrong, then Resets , never a problem since , yesterday I start it says lane sense needs a service , for 2 seconds then all fine , I think the software code is like my old commode 64 computer , works , buts has various glitches that u can't repeat . It's a strange beast , actually it reminds me of an older proline 2 king air aircraft I have spent many an hour in , works well , but complex software and hardware prone to glitches .

Even when I updated the software. The volume controls wouldn't work , the sat nav said it needed calibrating , after two software resets it all started working ..... Sometimes I like simple cars , u turn them on and they go .... That's t , no software to worry about !
I agree. Have the same sort of glitches on my 2015.
  • SatNav loses all the satellites (it was trying to compensate and showed me on the map in a corn field, looked at the GPS acquisition, no satellites !?) => reset the system
  • the UI sometimes becomes unresponsive when searching for a route => reset the system
  • lane sense needs service, collision warning needs service (intermittent, normal weather conditions, regular driving) => "sorry the Chrysler servers are down for two days, can't look at those problems"
  • update the TCM/PCM module => transmission loses the 2nd gear
  • engine light comes on => replace transmission at 9k miles.
  • etc

The car is so comfortable and drives like a dream, BUT I'm never gonna buy another Italian car ever again!

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post #17 of 129 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 04:11 PM
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I'm thinking my wife had this issue on the way into work. She called me frantically saying the transmission will not shift and is revving to 7000rpm. She new it wasn't stuck in a low gear with manual mode and no error messages or code came up. She pulled onto a side street put it into park, shut it off and started up and drive off with no problem. I'm gonna test drive when I get home and see if I can duplicate and then take to dealership on Thursday to run history on transmission operation


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post #18 of 129 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:34 AM
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Has anyone taken theirs in for this yet? It is on my recalls page, and I got notification about it from carcomplaints.com, in which it goes into a little bit more detail about the problem. I am interested in this recall, because if you read my threads about my Jeep dying and throwing solenoid codes 3 times in less than a year, it sounds like what this recall is about. I have included the part in the recall info where it talked about the solenoid codes.
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post #19 of 129 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:54 AM
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My wife that drives the jeep daily said she had an issue one day that sounds just like this. We did not have time to take it into the dealer before leaving on our honeymoon but we drove it 400 miles to Gatlinburg 400 miles to Charleston and back to Ohio for another 630 miles totaling around 1600 miles in a week with no issues. We got back Monday and I plan to be dropping it off tomorrow or Friday for service and possibly this update. I will let you know of any changes in the driving.


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post #20 of 129 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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I'm in Canada, where they tend to be behind on these things. This recall doesn't appear on the moparownersconnect site yet. And as is typical with the FCA Canada site, there are links to look up recalls for their makes, which all take you to the US sites. And there, when you select "Canada" from the "where are you located" dropdown, it just pops up a message telling you to contact FCA Canada, pointing you back to the site you started from.

I'm not super-worried yet.
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