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Shifting from 4th to 5th

16K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  Dodgeboy 
#1 ·
Hi Folks. Greetings from Manitoulin Island. ...anyone who has a resolution to this issue I'm having I'd like to hear from you. First of all, I like my 2015 V6 limited AD1 e/w tow pkg. I have 62,000 km on it and for the most part it drives like new. It's the tray. .. . As we know, gears 1-4 are designed and shift like a conventional automatic with 5 thru 9 being of the "dog" clutch variety. On occasion the transitional shift between conventional gear 4 and dog 5 can be so hard it shocks the rear end portion of the drive train so hard with a slam felt thru the entire car. It commonly happens when I let up on the accelerator in 4th, just prior to the upshift to 5th and what should be a rather light duty shift ends up with a "what #@%/ was that??? Up hill or down or on level. It takes a bit of a perfect storm to make it happen. I really like this vehicle and prefer to solve the issue rather than trade it. No codes.... It's the only annoyance I have. All software is up to date. Since I can't always replicate it my dealer is of no help at this point. Appreciate any thoughts...and seasons greetings to all. Thanks.

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#2 ·
.... can be so hard it shocks the rear end portion of the drive train so hard with a slam felt thru the entire car. It commonly happens when I let up on the accelerator in 4th, just prior to the upshift to 5th and what should be a rather light duty shift ends up with a "what #@%/ was that??? Up hill or down or on level. It takes a bit of a perfect storm to make it happen. I really like this vehicle and prefer to solve the issue rather than trade it. No codes.... It's the only annoyance I have. All software is up to date. Since I can't always replicate it my dealer is of no help at this point. Appreciate any thoughts...and seasons greetings to all. Thanks.
Unfortunately can't contribute any knowledge on this to help, other than to say you've described it very well and the exact same thing happens with my 9/2014 build.

Since it usually happens in traffic and while letting up on the throttle, as you said, I never have a chance to see what gears are at play. Wouldn't doubt it involves a dog clutch since it feels worse than popping the clutch on a standard shift transmission. Happens so infrequently though (maybe once a month at most) I don't fret about it anymore.
 
#3 ·
My best advice would be to take it to another dealership and request a test drive with the service tech. Unfortunately if it doesn't happen while the'yre with you, they won't even bother looking further. I've had mine in over 10 times for shifting problems (this was when the updates were still coming out, I have a 2014 build), most of the time they would do a quick 5km drive and park it saying no problem found, otherwise they would put the transmission into adaptive learn mode again and send me on my way. My shift problems mostly occurred with the 1-2 and 2-3 shift, and I'm still having problems with the jerkyness and lag when shifting, but I've given up on trying to fix it.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have the exact same problem that the OP describes on my 2015 (11/14 build). It happens so infrequently that I doubt it would occur on a test drive at the dealer. I didn't realize until now that this was the dog clutch shift. It might do a harsh shift twice in five minutes then not do it again for a week. It took a while to narrow down which gear was the problem but I'm pretty sure it's the 4-5 shift at about 35 mph and light throttle. This started over the last six months or so.

It's almost like the transmission thinks it's doing a full-throttle shift but doesn't know the engine is at light throttle. Sometimes it's just a little harsh and other times it really bangs into gear. 99% of the time it shifts perfectly. I don't know if my software is up to date as I haven't had the Jeep to the dealer for about a year. The Cherokee has just over 46K miles on it and I'm generally happy with the vehicle.
 
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#6 ·
.... Maybe it is waiting to surprise me soon!
Maybe not :smile:

Seems a lot of people are real happy with the shifting with their 2016+ 9-speeds - - - Generally speaking; I know there are exceptions. Probably took a couple years to get the kinks out.
 
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#10 ·
Same issue here ... happens for me around 40mph. My wife always looks at me and asks "40?"

Seems to happen to me more frequently as time goes on although I can never replicate it at will. I'll try the process @jeepfan4x4 described and see if i can make it happen. Then it's off to the dealer.
 
#11 ·
In looking back over the posts, it seems this is a 2015 model year problem.
 
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#13 ·
The OP asked about the "slam felt thru the entire car" during a shift from 4th to 5th which requires the dog clutch to engage. That is an anomaly that should not happen; but it does on occasion for certain people, including me.

The runaway feel is something different that is normal and due to the rev match done to enable the shift. It is most noticeable when decelerating when the driver is expecting the vehicle to slow due to engine braking but at the 5-4 shift the computer blips the throttle to enable a smooth engagement of the dog clutch. I notice it most when exiting a freeway at speed.
 
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#14 ·
Mine did it yesterday, at 45 mph it usually wants 6th. I got to 45 in 4th and it acted like I clutched on a manual, the RPMs revved up as I was still accelerating and it felt like I went into neutral. After about one second it grabbed again in either 5th or 6th. I just usually ignore it because it shifts so smoothly outside of this scenario and I know it's related to the dog clutch switching over to the next range of gears.


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#15 ·
Going to the dealer and getting the most recent TCM and PCM reflashes can be helpful.
 
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#16 ·
I re-read a description of the 9-speed's operation and it seems that 5th gear disengages the dog clutch, not engages it. For 5th, the dog clutch disengages and one of the regular wet-plate clutch packs engages.
 
#17 · (Edited)
That's correct. There are two dog clutches: A & F. Most of the discussions on this forum focus on the F clutch which needs to be engaged to accomplish gears 1, 2, 3, and 4, as well as Neutral/Park and Reverse. It is disengaged for all other gears. Some of the discussions are about downshifting where the F dog clutch is engaged going from 5th gear to 4th gear, and the accompanied rev match to line the gears up before the shift. The transmission does not need to shift through the gears sequentially so diving from 8th gear to 4th gear under acceleration (~passing gear) must accomplish 2 dog clutch shifts.

The A dog clutch needs to be engaged to accomplish gears 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. It is disengaged for all other gears.

Recall R01 included the following table on page 9: http://www.wk2jeeps.com/Misc/Cherokee/KL_TSB/KL_RC_R01_15a.pdf...

Text Font Line Design Number


John D. Kelly proved these clutch scenarios in this video published back in September, 2015:
 
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#18 ·
Im having this same issue between 4th and 5th gear, Ill feel a hard SLAM into gear. Caught me off guard the first few times. It has begun to do it more frequently (maybe 3 times a week) but it still does not do it enough to bring it to the dealer. I don't want to go to the dealer to just be told "we cant recreate the issue". My latitude V6 has 26,000 miles on it.
 
#21 ·
I noticed this just a little, not anywhere near the extremes mentioned in this thread. However, when I was in for an oil change a couple of months ago, and the dealer did a couple of reflashes, I have not noticed it at all. It would be the 4-5 shift, going about 40mph and then letting off the accelerator just a little.... I'd see it about 1/2 mile before I got to work, in the same spot which was a slight uphill grade. After the reflash, I have not felt it again. And its been about three months now.
 
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#23 ·
I'm still having the issue sporadically and have notice it sometimes 'bangs' into 5th when my foot is completely off the throttle. I noticed above that taatmk found that a re-flash may have resolved the issue. I think the last time the Cherokee was checked for updates was 12/15 so I just made an appointment with the dealer for updates in about a week and a half. They said they'd need the Jeep for a whole day to update everything which doesn't sound right to me, but maybe they have to take it for a drive afterward to re-learn the transmission.
 
#24 ·
@Dodgeboy - So far the S55 recall flash has reduced the occurrences of the Bang for mine. Hope your appointment takes care of it for you.
 
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#25 ·
I wanted to drive it a week or so before posting, but I had the transmission re-flashed on 2/1 and I haven't had it bang into 5th gear since. The re-flash was the TSB 18-035-16 update and so far the shifting has been excellent. The only time I got a funky shift was when I was fiddling around with manually controlling the thing, but left to shift on it's own it's been great. Downshifts into 2nd or 1st at low speeds have been good, too. If it acts up again I'll report. I'm thinking that they are finessing the programming over and over and are finally getting the ZF to where it should be.
 
#26 ·
I notice there are times when I'm coming to a complete stop, and when the car isn't fully warmed up, the downshift from 2nd to 1st is a little bit rougher, but after it's warmed up, it doesn't appear to do that. Overall though, shifts are pretty good, and have little complaints really. Glad to hear going from 4th to 5th is smoother for you. I, myself, don't seem to encounter this issue like others have had. If anything 2nd to 3rd is usually more of a banging shift than the rest, but it's not too bad really. :)
 
#27 ·
My 2015 has this exact same problem. I actually just dropped it off to the dealer yesterday for this issue, and a possibly related issue.

Mine seems to happen like many have said, if I'm accelerating rather quickly and then kind of let off the gas right before the shift, it clunks every time. The problem is, the 4-5 shift usually happens around 40mph, which when driving around town is usually when I start to back off the gas.

The possibly related issue I'm having, when in 5th gear, and 5th gear only, if I completely let off the gas, the moment I reapply the gas, I hear and sometimes feel a grind when the clutch re-engages. Hopefully I'll know more soon.
 
#30 ·
After having the transmission reflashed at 50K miles, I figured the 4-5 shift problem was resolved. But after about 1000 miles I noticed an occasional harsh shift. Now at 53K the problem still happens from time to time. A passenger in the Jeep mentioned it yesterday. We had driven about 80 miles in traffic and I think it shifted harshly once.

I'm sure if I took it to the dealer they wouldn't be able to replicate the problem. At this point I'll hope it doesn't get worse and if it does, return to the dealer. Another plan is to take it in just before the 75K warranty runs out and get the problem recorded. That way, if it gets worse, I think they'll have to fix it after the warranty is out.
 
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