Losing Hope in the 9 Speed, Even Honda Can't Get it Right - Page 3 - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 09:53 PM
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I think the 9 speed is here to stay. It improves gas mileage in these bigger sized engines and that is what the government is after. I think with time and experience, FCA and ZF will continue to improve them. While I will not be surprised if my 2015 tranny comes down with the flu some day, so far even after 42,000 miles on it, its been very healthy.
And yet the Ford Edge I've been driving as a rental all week (with a 3.5 and a 6-spd) got noticeably better mileage than my TH on a 3000 km round trip. And I wasn't driving economically by any means......

Oh yeah...and no stupid auto stop/start system......
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 10:01 PM
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And yet the Ford Edge I've been driving as a rental all week (with a 3.5 and a 6-spd) got noticeably better mileage than my TH on a 3000 km round trip. And I wasn't driving economically by any means......

Oh yeah...and no stupid auto stop/start system......
To be fair, you drive a Trailhawk, which gets the worst gas mileage of the entire trim line. The Ford Edge isn't exactly made for off-roading. Best mileage I've mustered thus far is around 23.7mpg, but I know 25mpg is achievable.

That being said, what sort of numbers were you getting, and how does that compare to your TH?
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 10:05 PM
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I think one of the big problems with the reviews is they don't understand the transmission

Personally I have a 2016 2.4 and it shifts great

One thing about the transmission is it is certainly a learning transmission that adapts to driving style. I recently had a flash done and it took 20 or 30 miles to relearn my driving style. During that time of the shfts were rough. I think these guys are getting new cars off the line and the transmission isn't learning the driving style considering they have multiple drivers using the cars

Another evidence of their ignorance of the design is how many professional magazines have rated the KL transmission bad for having A nonworking or poorly working auto stick system

No one read the manual to realize that it is not a mean your Manumatic transmission but an electronic range selection


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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 10:15 PM
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To be fair, you drive a Trailhawk, which gets the worst gas mileage of the entire trim line. The Ford Edge isn't exactly made for off-roading. Best mileage I've mustered thus far is around 23.7mpg, but I know 25mpg is achievable.

That being said, what sort of numbers were you getting, and how does that compare to your TH?
I agree with that.....was just interesting to see the 6-speed and larger displacement averaging 9L to 10L per 100 km at 120 km/h when I would be running about 12L to 13L / 100 at the same speed.
(23 to 26 mpg and 18 to 20 mpg respectively - converted)
At best I would expect a 3.2 limited version to probably be about the same as the Edge....which stems back to original observation that the 9-spd really doesn't improve fuel economy by any significant margin.

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wilcharl View Post
I think one of the big problems with the reviews is they don't understand the transmission

Personally I have a 2016 2.4 and it shifts great

One thing about the transmission is it is certainly a learning transmission that adapts to driving style. I recently had a flash done and it took 20 or 30 miles to relearn my driving style. During that time of the shfts were rough. I think these guys are getting new cars off the line and the transmission isn't learning the driving style considering they have multiple drivers using the cars

Another evidence of their ignorance of the design is how many professional magazines have rated the KL transmission bad for having A nonworking or poorly working auto stick system

No one read the manual to realize that it is not a mean your Manumatic transmission but an electronic range selection


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When the 2011 WK2 came out auto rags slammed the newer grand Cherokee because there was no way to downshift, which was so inaccurate as you just had to slide the stick over a little to the left to auto shift. It's amazing how clueless some of the staff writers really are as their main job is to research and drive the vehicle they are actually writing about.

I get that many of them didn't go to school for journalism, but since it's their job now, one might think that they would get a crash course on writing, research and reporting. No real fact checking at all.

The Ford Edge is a completely different vehicle. Comparing is much like comparing apples and oranges. With my 2016 TH I have seen as high as 28mpg, but that was with a tail wind much of the way from NY to the OBX of NC. However I had plenty of hills to go up and down, stopping and slowing for a few toll booths and a serious traffic jam once we hit the crossing to the barrier islands. Coming home I had an overall mileage of 24.9. It was definitely windier. Crossing lower Ontario I faced massive headwinds and barely made 22mpg on the highways but it was Winter fuel blend which affects overall gas milagro too.

More gears and ESS aren't necessarily going to improve overall fuel efficiency but even a Prius can get lousy mileage depending upon how it's driven and when, where and so on.

It's mostly about appearance. For me Ford Motor company is out, unless it's a lease as they don't design drainage well for salty snow bound areas.

They do have decent interiors. I really liked my Lincoln. Again apples and oranges. The climate and overall road conditions dictate that most people have a decent SUV/CUV or truck with 4WD capabilities.

Sure there are times I wish I could have a RWD rag top, but like when I owned motorcycles it just seemed to be a gross waste of income as NY State makes you insure vehicles 12 months out of the year. It's nuts. When I lived in a Orange County, CA, we had one vehicle and I rode a Honda Interceptor most of the time. Then the wife ended up with child. It's never been the same since. Living in Seattle area or Upstate NY with need for cargo and wanting a quiet, safe driver but not giving up everything and getting a minivan once again, back to a sporty SUV that can tow and go up muddy, snowy dirt roads when needed.

Maybe I'm getting old or nostalgic, but my 1987 Honda Accord with 4 banging and a 5 speed easily got well over 40mpg on highway trips from the SF Bay Area to SLC.

It's all the airbags, electronics and emissions equipment that have us driving such heavy vehicles which definitely impact gas mileage over
the number of gears in an automatic gearbox.

The ZF9 may be quirky but it works. I might just have to start keeping the stick over towards the left and trying to get it to submit to my will or Jeep it in Sport mode when I desire less interference. For now it's just fine.

It is strange to switch vehicles but it would be strange switching to a sports car with double clutching if you were perfectly happy with a foot operated clutch.

Really what are our options. Not many. I may just end up with a pickup if my TH fails. The Hound would prefer that anyway.


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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedtekTH View Post
I agree with that.....was just interesting to see the 6-speed and larger displacement averaging 9L to 10L per 100 km at 120 km/h when I would be running about 12L to 13L / 100 at the same speed.
(23 to 26 mpg and 18 to 20 mpg respectively - converted)
At best I would expect a 3.2 limited version to probably be about the same as the Edge....which stems back to original observation that the 9-spd really doesn't improve fuel economy by any significant margin.
I will say there are far too many variables if you're only comparing transmissions as the reasoning. Power band, torque curve, weight, aerodynamics, gearing ratios, tires, etc. They all have a say in what sort of mileage you'll get. We also know that people with a KL Limited V6 with ADI could get close to 30mpg on the highway if they were careful, but mid to upper 20s under most conditions on highway I would say.

For example, I know that while my Mini has a 6-speed, if you compare gas mileage from a 02-04 model year to my 2005, the gearing ratios are closer for better acceleration in mine (one of the changes for 05-06 models), but lower top speed. So an earlier model R53 Mini will likely get higher mileage than mine just based on gearing alone.

But, as always...YMMV.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 01:28 AM
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I will say there are far too many variables if you're only comparing transmissions as the reasoning. Power band, torque curve, weight, aerodynamics, gearing ratios, tires, etc. They all have a say in what sort of mileage you'll get. We also know that people with a KL Limited V6 with ADI could get close to 30mpg on the highway if they were careful, but mid to upper 20s under most conditions on highway I would say.

For example, I know that while my Mini has a 6-speed, if you compare gas mileage from a 02-04 model year to my 2005, the gearing ratios are closer for better acceleration in mine (one of the changes for 05-06 models), but lower top speed. So an earlier model R53 Mini will likely get higher mileage than mine just based on gearing alone.

But, as always...YMMV.
I think you're misunderstanding the overall point.....I absolutely agree that differences in driving conditions and styles will cause many variables. My general observation in my travels (I rent a lot of vehicles with my job,mostly SUV's, and travel a LOT of kms in them) is that there does not appear to be ANY significant difference in overall fuel mileage with the 9 spd tranny as opposed to units with fewer gear ratios. A couple percentage points here or there is unnoticeable to pretty much anyone and the complexity of the design will lend itself to potential problems in the long run me thinks. This marketing obsession with more gears is ridiculous, kind of reminds me of the razor battles that seem to go on....when a double (or triple) blade is really all you need for a decent shave.
Doesn't Ford have a ten speed auto now? Where does it end?
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 01:35 AM
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 08:32 AM
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I think you're misunderstanding the overall point.....I absolutely agree that differences in driving conditions and styles will cause many variables. My general observation in my travels (I rent a lot of vehicles with my job,mostly SUV's, and travel a LOT of kms in them) is that there does not appear to be ANY significant difference in overall fuel mileage with the 9 spd tranny as opposed to units with fewer gear ratios. A couple percentage points here or there is unnoticeable to pretty much anyone and the complexity of the design will lend itself to potential problems in the long run me thinks. This marketing obsession with more gears is ridiculous, kind of reminds me of the razor battles that seem to go on....when a double (or triple) blade is really all you need for a decent shave.
Doesn't Ford have a ten speed auto now? Where does it end?
I fully understand your point, Speed. What I was trying to convey was merely that because there are loads of other variables, singling out the transmissions alone is not so clear cut. That being said, I do understand your point that with all these gear ratios being added to cars nowadays, you do have to ask yourself where does it stop? Ultimately, it is more about marketing than anything. More is better, right?
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-30-2017, 12:24 PM
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Agree about the many variables. I tend to believe that the 9 speed benefits most with the 4 cyl. I'm not sure that the v6 needs it and maybe it's overkill with the added hp. We just picked up a Dodge Journey for the wife's vehicle and it has the 6 speed, but with a 3.6 v6. Noticed quickly that in sixth gear it is geared almost the same as the 9 speed Cherokee in ninth. It cruises at 66-67 mph at right at 1500 rpm. And it is very smooth through the gears like it doesn't really need more. But there is one place that the 9 speed seems to still excell - on steep long hills the Cherokee I-4 9 speed holds speed more accurately than the 3.6 V6 six speed - less drop in mph before downshift due to wider gear spacing. All other conditions have the Journey mopping up on the 4 cyl Cherokee.
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