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Xenon HID Headlight Failure on Trailhawk

7K views 27 replies 5 participants last post by  Mark_ 
#1 ·
I was wheeling a couple of weeks ago and needed to use my headlights because it was raining and got dark in the woods. When my lights switched on I immediately got a low beam off error message. I got out and sure enough my headlight was off.

After I got home the headlights would come on and operate correctly. So I went out to a gravel road to see if I could replicate the situation. It turns out that as soon as I engage my rear locker the lights go out. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there just not enough power available to run the locker and HIDs at the same time?


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#2 ·
I was wheeling a couple of weeks ago and needed to use my headlights because it was raining and got dark in the woods. When my lights switched on I immediately got a low beam off error message. I got out and sure enough my headlight was off.

After I got home the headlights would come on and operate correctly. So I went out to a gravel road to see if I could replicate the situation. It turns out that as soon as I engage my rear locker the lights go out. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there just not enough power available to run the locker and HIDs at the same time?
Hi there,

I had to search via your profile to find out you probably installed a Xenon Depot HID kit. Correct ?

The bolded part in the quote above : is that one headlight out or both ?

I've been reading these HID kit threads for a long time, and this is a first for me. The locker thing I mean. I don't see how they could be related... but obviously something is going on with yours.

Maybe... somemone will have some insight. I don't. I have an XD HID kit on my 2015 but no TH so no locker.
 
#4 ·
Yes it is the Xenon Depot HID kit. Mine is on my 2014 TH.

It started as only one light but after a few minutes they both shut off. When I tested it out today on the gravel road only one went out. But I didn't leave it on very long to see if the other one would shut off.


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#5 ·
It is the factory locker. I'm not exactly sure how it works. It is an electronic on/off switch but based on how it is affecting the lights I am assuming that it is sending continuous power while it is on. I did turn the Jeep off for about 10 minutes and restarted it. The locker was still engaged when I started it back up. When I manually turned the headlights on, they would come on for a second and then turn off.


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#7 ·
I know this is a shot in the dark (pun intended) but maybe you should have your battery checked as it may be on it's way out? Or possibly an issue with the charging system?

Maybe a test would be to put the EVIC on the battery/charge monitor and then go out and hit the locker with the lights on and see if you get a bad voltage drop.

The fact that HIDs drop off makes me think it might be a power issue that the battery/charging system can't keep up with because they are pretty finicky about power.
 
#12 ·
I finally was able to get my battery and charging system tested. The battery is at 80% and the charging system passed all the tests. I did have the battery changed a year or so ago. I checked it and I have an AGM battery in it.

Last night I was still having problems with one light going out. I would turn it off and on. It wasn't always the same light. After driving for a bit, they stopped giving me problems and worked fine.


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#14 ·
I finally was able to get my battery and charging system tested. The battery is at 80% and the charging system passed all the tests. I did have the battery changed a year or so ago. I checked it and I have an AGM battery in it.

Last night I was still having problems with one light going out. I would turn it off and on. It wasn't always the same light. After driving for a bit, they stopped giving me problems and worked fine.
Hey Dan,

Thanks for the follow-up. I have a few more questions... :

1) Your original battery failed early. Was it replaced under warranty ? I'm asking because, under normal conditions, a dealer would not install a more expensive AGM battery in a vehicule that didn't have one from the factory (their claim to FCA would be denied).

2) The replacement is an AGM ? How can you tell ? The cover on our batteries hides pretty much everything. Do you have an invoice that says AGM ? If so, would you mind sharing the part # here ?

3) When the original battery was replaced, did anyone find a possible cause for this early failure ? As I've mentionned before, there seems to be an inherent weakness with the regular/wet KL batteries, but there could also be other causes for early failure, like aftermarket accessories running 24/7 (dash cam, CB radio, etc...). Do you have any accessories like that ?

4) New battery is 80% good ? Hmmm. I'm not a big fan of in-shop battery testing equipment... but that's me... Now, 80% may be a great result on a biology exam, but for a almost brand new AGM (assuming it is AGM), I'm not impressed...
That was more of an observation than a question, haha.

5) Your HID kit : is it an early one where you had to install resistors ? Or a newer one with the PWM modules (aka CANbus) ?

Thanks..

One thing I've been wondering about is are they getting too hot? We are now getting mid to high 90 degree weather. I've ran the lights on in the mornings and haven't had failures. The failures in the evenings are after it has been out in the heat all day.
That would be a first. Never heard of heat vs HID problems before.
 
#13 ·
One thing I've been wondering about is are they getting too hot? We are now getting mid to high 90 degree weather. I've ran the lights on in the mornings and haven't had failures. The failures in the evenings are after it has been out in the heat all day.


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#15 ·
The invoice wasn't in my glove box (grrrr!) so I'm not exactly sure how old it is. But it can't be too old. I didn't have it replaced at the dealership simply because I didn't know at the time that batteries could be replaced under warranty. Nobody checked why the factory battery failed.

I did lift up the battery cover and saw that it said AGM on it. It is a Duralast H7-AGM.

As far as accessories, all I that I have connected is a winch, a cutoff solenoid for the winch, and a Trigger Switching System to turn on/off the solenoid. The Trigger is wired directly to the battery but it does have a fuse tap that turns it off when the key is off. That doesn't mean that it may not be slowly draining the battery though.

I installed the HIDs in March. They came with the PWM modules.

I have been watched voltages on the EVIC. Just now as it has been sitting for an hour, with the ignition turned on but the engine off, it is reading 12.1V. Since yesterday morning, as I am driving it reads 13.7 to 13.9 V.

I'm replying to you on my iPhone, so I hope I answered all your questions! :)


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#16 · (Edited)
The invoice wasn't in my glove box (grrrr!) so I'm not exactly sure how old it is. But it can't be too old. I didn't have it replaced at the dealership simply because I didn't know at the time that batteries could be replaced under warranty. Nobody checked why the factory battery failed.

I did lift up the battery cover and saw that it said AGM on it. It is a Duralast H7-AGM.

As far as accessories, all I that I have connected is a winch, a cutoff solenoid for the winch, and a Trigger Switching System to turn on/off the solenoid. The Trigger is wired directly to the battery but it does have a fuse tap that turns it off when the key is off. That doesn't mean that it may not be slowly draining the battery though.

I installed the HIDs in March. They came with the PWM modules.

I have been watched voltages on the EVIC. Just now as it has been sitting for an hour, with the ignition turned on but the engine off, it is reading 12.1V. Since yesterday morning, as I am driving it reads 13.7 to 13.9 V.

I'm replying to you on my iPhone, so I hope I answered all your questions! :)
Great info there Dan, thanks ;)

Yeah H7 is group 94R, and if it says "Platinum" then it's AGM. Autozone won't let me see a price, but exact clones go for $170 to $230 depending on the label, and specials.

From your voltage readings, I get the feeling your battery is failing... :frown:
I have the same AGM in mine, and resting voltage even after a few hours with everything Off is above 13V. Charging voltage in mine is almost always at 14.2V, sometimes on long drives it may drop to 13.9V but never lower. A healthy car battery should read 12.4-12.6V minimum at rest. Your running readings of 13.7 - 13.9V indicate (to me) that the battery is not accepting a full charge anymore.

So yeah you may have something draining the battery... and I suspect this may be causing the HID problems. The car headlight monitoring system is very sensitive to running voltage...

So with this all said, I think you need to first find what is draining the battery, or else you will end up replacing batteries every year...
I have a feeling your HID worries will go away with a healthy battery...

Speaking of batteries : are you still below 60K miles ? If so, you could get a new battery under warranty. It won't be AGM but at least it'll be free.
And if you are no longer under basic warranty and/or decide to buy a new battery... I'd have a few suggestions for a replacement, even better than what you have now.
 
#17 ·
So I just checked the battery voltage using a voltmeter and it shows 12.5V with everything off. The vehicle has been off for about an hour. When I just turned the ignition to on, the EVIC shows 12.1V (the radio and A/C fan were on). When I went out and checked it with the voltmeter, it showed 12.3V. So I don't which reading is correct. But when I check the battery with the voltmeter when it was running a little while ago and it said 13.8V (at idle).

Anyway, electrical systems certainly aren't my area of expertise. What you have said certainly matches things I read yesterday. I only had the 36k mile warranty and I'm sitting around 43k miles. I am willing to give another battery a try. What would you recommend as a replacement?

As far as what would be draining the battery, I think it has to be the Trigger System. It is a pretty recent install. I can unplug it ... what would I look for over the next couple of days to verify if that is the culprit? Perhaps I can put the voltmeter inline with it to see if it is drawing any voltage while it is "off".


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#20 ·
So I just checked the battery voltage using a voltmeter and it shows 12.5V with everything off. The vehicle has been off for about an hour. When I just turned the ignition to on, the EVIC shows 12.1V (the radio and A/C fan were on). When I went out and checked it with the voltmeter, it showed 12.3V. So I don't which reading is correct. But when I check the battery with the voltmeter when it was running a little while ago and it said 13.8V (at idle).

Anyway, electrical systems certainly aren't my area of expertise. What you have said certainly matches things I read yesterday. I only had the 36k mile warranty and I'm sitting around 43k miles. I am willing to give another battery a try. What would you recommend as a replacement?

As far as what would be draining the battery, I think it has to be the Trigger System. It is a pretty recent install. I can unplug it ... what would I look for over the next couple of days to verify if that is the culprit? Perhaps I can put the voltmeter inline with it to see if it is drawing any voltage while it is "off".
Here to help whenever I can, and thanks ;)

Ok so you are right about the voltage being better with everything Off, and 12.1V with A/C blower and radio is understandable (not necessarily bad).

With a multimeter, check at the battery in the morning, or after an extended rest (8+ hours), to see where your resting voltage is at. 13.8V running at idle is also possible, with some draw from regular stuff like the blower, because at idle the alternator is not fully charging.
But I'm still worried with those running voltages you mentionned earlier (from EVIC/DID) at 13.7 - 13.9V.

About the basic warranty : sorry, my bad... it is 36K miles. I live in a metric system country and I do still (though rarely) mix up miles with kilometers. 36K miles is 60K kilometers...

How recent is the Trigger System ? The thing is, *if* a drain caused your original battery to fail early, it has to be something else... that was installed further back in time. Unless that battery just died because of a defect (we've seen that here on the forum).
Anyway, you could unplug it and let the HIDs be your guide.
If not that, maybe the winch ?

Is your multimeter capable of checking DC current (amps) ? If so, you could possibly check a few things yourself, like checking rest draw at the battery and then, if higher than normal, you unplug one accessory and re-check, etc... We can get you at rest current numbers if you can do this... Draw is current (amps), not voltage, so you need a meter capable of measuring current for this...

Also keep an eye on the running voltage (EVIC/DID) for the next few days. If you don't see 14V (or slightly higher) it would confirm (to me anyway) that there is a problem with the battery.

Buying a new battery is one way to rule out a failing battery, but... it's an expensive way if it turns out your actual battery isn't dying yet.

There is one brand of battery that appears to stand above all the rest, and it's Northstar. This is according to specs and online searching (various forums, etc...). The battery you have right now is built by Johnson Controls, and is sold under dozens of different labels/distributors (Exide, AC Delco, Diehard, Bosch, Duracell, Autocraft, the list goes on and on...), but the Northstars are not as *common*. You can buy them as Northstars, or from Batteries+Bulbs as X2 Power models.
Caveat : they are expensive...
Here's the group 94R : https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli94ragmdp

Northstar also makes one bigger battery that fits (just barely) in the KLs and it has 40% more reserve capacity. It's the group 27F X2 Power. Even more expensive, heh, taller and heavier. I'd recommend that only to those who really abuse their battery though...

One thing to do first : check your battery posts to make sure the connections are tight. I've read from others and noticed myself they are a strange design and not easy to get on tight, especially the Positive side. If loose, remove and clean underneath (top of battery, around the post), and when re-installing make sur you wiggle them fully down, or else they won't be tight enough.

I gotta go for the rest of the day. I'll be sure to monitor this thread when I get back, and regularly though.

Good luck ;)

Edit : I posted this before seeing your last message about the 5.1 mA. I'll need to do some searching on that... later. And this answers my above question about your ability to check current lol.
 
#24 ·
Instead of editing again...

Dan : can you please check one thing when you get a chance ? With the engine running (parked), check voltage at the battery with your multimeter, just to rule out a problem with the EVIC readings.

I find it very odd that you used to see 13.7 - 13.9V running with the Autozone AGM and now with the new Northstar you are getting no higher than 13.2V... Hmmmm.
 
#25 ·
I just checked it with the multimeter while running and it is 13.51V. The EVIC still says 13.2V.

I do still have the old autozone battery .... just in case I need to toss it back in. I was wondering if using an AGM battery in this 2014 Cherokee was okay or should I try going back to a wet cell?


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