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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Electric truck 4x4

Havelaar's new Bison looks too cool for a work truck 300 km cruising range real 110 v output for power tools ladder frame, no mufflers to tear off clearance approach and departure look reasonable two motors instead of transfer case. Kind of industrial rated drive. Probably has an industrial price too.$60k+????
http://www.havelaarcanada.com/#alpha-anchor

Might avoid sending someone out with a gen set if they only had to make one hole or cut that was a bit more than what a battery powered tool could do.

The Tesla CUV will eat the Bison's dust.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 02:02 PM
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I just can't wrap my head around these "alternative" fueled vehicles.

The fact of the matter is converting energy isn't 100% efficient, so the more you swap it from one form of energy to another the more losses there are. Where do people think the electric or hydrogen comes from? The conversion to this energy makes its use (as a whole) less efficient than the average combustion engine. The attraction is smog... That is all. An electric or hydrogen powered vehicle pushes the smog created to a location outside the use area (city). It's essentially pushing other people's trash off onto others, but thanks to marketing and spin we (as a whole) think it's better. :facepalm:

...and before someone tells me about solar or wind energy look at this...



Our energy comes from burning, burning, burning, radiation and three-eyed fish, burning, burning, and that last 5% are those "clean" energies... and this is AFTER trillions of dollars have been pumped into the industry (which many experts say isn't self-sustainable).


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for better options, but we have the cart before the horse with electric cars...

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 05:44 PM
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Gasoline requires a more expensive distribution network and has to go from chemical -> conversion (refinery) -> distribution -> conversion (internal combusion, 25-50% efficiency petrol vs diesel) -> utilization.
Electric goes: chemical -> conversion (to electric) -> distribution (power lines) -> charging (85-95% efficiency) -> utilization
Electric has the additional advantage of alternate sources (wind, solar, hydro) with various levels of conversion efficiency overy chermical/refining.

The real problem with electric right now is range and charging rate. Gasoline/diesel has much greater range and refueling is a matter of a couple of minutes to fill the tank. Electric has less range and "refueling" is a matter of a lengthy recharge.

I'd love to have an all-electric vehicle, but the range and charging makes long-distance travel impractical. And having electric for commute and gasoline for long-distance means I need two different vehicles, registration, insurance, taxes, ...

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 05:57 PM
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The real problem with electric any vehicle is the batteries. How do you recycle them? Prius = rolling toxic waste dump. EMT's have to have special training if one of these vehicles is involved in an accident: what to do if the batteries catch on fire? Electric is still in its infancy; not yet ready for prime time.

I did consider the original Volt, but the new one is too ugly for my taste.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 06:00 PM
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@Rojhan,

The natural gas (and all burned fuels) don't go directly from ground to combustion, They still goes through refinement and because it is combusted for steam to turn the generators (in most cases), the same 25-50% combustion loss exists. With wind, solar, and hydro accounting for a mere 5% of produced electric I personally don't see it as an advantage, especially given its cost per kW to produce.

...and while I agree the charging is pretty efficient it is only possible by the battery that is essentially hazardous waste and is a bomb/fire waiting to go off (Samsung anyone?). Improvements here do continue to be made though...

I suppose you can argue there is an advantage to the reclaimed energy from decelerations where the standard stopping is just friction and heat. This is cool

My favorite place for electric at the moment is in hybrid technology where the motor(s) are used for launching and to fill the gaps of torque in the combustion engine and driveline. I suppose all in due time and someone needs to push into new boundaries. I just haven't clicked the "I believe" button yet.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SS_Syndicate View Post
@Rojhan,

...and while I agree the charging is pretty efficient it is only possible by the battery that is essentially hazardous waste and is a bomb/fire waiting to go off (Samsung anyone?). Improvements here do continue to be made though...
Because there is no hazzard in gasoline, either environmental or explosion.

Quote:
My favorite place for electric at the moment is in hybrid technology where the motor(s) are used for launching and to fill the gaps of torque in the combustion engine and driveline. I suppose all in due time and someone needs to push into new boundaries. I just haven't clicked the "I believe" button yet.
I believe that non-fossil-fuel is the future. There's a long way to get there from where we are now, both technology and culture.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rojhan View Post
Because there is no hazzard in gasoline, either environmental or explosion.
Touche' --- fair enough


Quote:
I believe that non-fossil-fuel is the future. There's a long way to get there from where we are now, both technology and culture.
I agree.... I'm just not sold on it now, but like I said, someone needs to push the boundary to move it... :yup:

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-04-2017, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed things like fuel cells for vehicles are often an overall violation of the 2nd law of thermo dynamics like perpetual motion machines. But where I live 70% plus energy is derived from hydro and some of that is run of river, which is a case of use it while it is flowing or wave good bye to it. Solar has the same issue, it's there when you don't need it. Even themo power plants have issues fitting baseload out put to below load demand. Which is why Oak ridge labs and NRC are both looking for storage strategies. Strangely E car batteries as storage instead of Power Walls are vaguely practical.

Now if there were just enough cobalt produced in the world to make all the Lith ion batteries to do this. Not.

This vehicle to be useful would have to have minimum 220 v charging or 460, or 600V which puts it into the commercial industrial use category for moment...
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